Posted by X98 on April 26, 2001 at 11:59:54:

David Koresh & The Cuckoo's Egg, Part 1 of 4
Carol A. Valentine Interviews Andrew X98

This article will appear at:
http://Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/Burial/page/b_kce.html

CAVEAT:
Some of you may find this material hard to read. I found it hard to write.

Each of us have fundamental beliefs which inspire our actions,
dictate our opinions and reactions, filter the chaos of life, and
organize that chaos into meaningful experiences. These beliefs can
be called one's worldview.

As an agnostic and a rationalist, I have never been interested in the
religion of the Branch Davidians. I believed to delve into David
Koresh's teachings was a diversion and that our focus should be on
the principles of the Bill of Rights and prosecution of the murderers.

But in September 1999, I started to correspond with a man whose
worldview was quite different from mine. His name was Andrew X98,
and he was living in Waco, studying the teachings of David Koresh.

Over time, he had became convinced that some so-called Davidians were
actively helping the government get away with the murders of Koresh
and his followers. I have long ago come to this conclusion myself,
on the basis of forensic evidence and Davidian testimony. However,
my e-mail correspondent came to his conclusions as a result of
studying Koresh's religious message, and seeing how that message was
being altered and suppressed by those claiming to be his followers.

Religious leaders influence the actions and opinions of many; they
can help the state solidify its power, or can undermine that power.
Thus governments have a vital interest in monitoring religious
leaders and their followers, and molding religious doctrines.

When priests, preachers, and prophets get too independent and their
teachings go beyond what the state will tolerate, those leaders
become enemies of the state. It is then in the interests of the
state to snuff them out.

It is possible that David Koresh may have been such a leader. What
was so controversial about Koresh's teachings? Among other things,
Koresh was teaching that Bible prophecies would be fulfilled in a
land other than Israel. He was teaching that a Savior would come
from Iran. He was teaching doctrines that paralleled the teachings
of Mohammed. In these things, David Koresh's theology must have been
dangerous to certain vested interests.

"David Koresh And The Cuckoo's Egg" is the result of a series of
conversations with Andrew X98. Of necessity, this interview gives
details of David Koresh's teachings and prophecies. Some of these
ideas might fly in the face of your own beliefs. You may become
angry.

A friend of mine, a member of a traditional Christian faith, did me
the favor of proofreading this interview. After he read it, he
confessed that he was revolted by Koresh's assertion that he was a
prophet of God. Prophets were long since dead and don't come any
more, my traditional friend said.

This set my agnostic mind to work: Why would God decide not to send
prophets anymore? Surely a religion that would not admit the
possibility of present time prophets was a religion that had
atrophied. I questioned my friend. He admitted he could think of no
"good reason" God, in all His wisdom and mercy, would cut modern man
off. My friend was willing to accommodate another view, and consider
the information contained herein.

So, too, I had to accommodate a view other than my own in order to
conduct this interview. In the interest of free inquiry into the
circumstances surrounding the death of David Koresh and his
followers, I was forced to put many of my own prejudices aside.

I invite you to open your mind and read "David Koresh And The Cuckoo's Egg."

A discussion of this article will be held on the KoreshX98
discussion group. [ KORESHX98 subscribe@onelist.com ]

For your convenience, here is the URL of a well-known on-line
concordance which you may wish to use when reading this interview.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/

Why "Cuckoo's Egg"?

When she's ready to lay an egg, the cuckoo bird finds a nest of
another species, lays her own egg in the nest, and leaves. The
owners of the nest return and unwittingly hatch the impostor egg and
feed the nestling cuckoo.

In A Nutshell: "David Koresh & The Cuckoo's Egg"

WACO-Branch Davidians believed sect leader David Koresh was a
manifestation of "God made flesh," and if God asked someone to do
something, it would not be considered a sin, a survivor of the 1993
siege testified Wednesday. "We gave ourselves, totally, to God," sect
member Clive Doyle testified. "We believe that God was speaking
through [David Koresh] ..." -- Plaintiff testifies in Waco trial by
Sherri Chunn, Associated Press, June 29, 2000.

April 19, 2001--Four and a half years ago, in October 1996 a man
living in Philadelphia made a decision to start a new life and devote
himself to finding God. He left all that was familiar behind
including his friends, a comfortable home, a big library, and even
his old name. His trip took him to Waco, Texas, to seek out Clive
Doyle, the man reputed to be David Koresh's disciple.

But after three and a half years of intensive study, this man, who
now calls himself Andrew X98, has come to the conclusion that:

* Clive Doyle is not, nor ever has been, a disciple of David Koresh,
* Koresh distrusted Doyle and sent him away from the Mt. Carmel Center,
* Doyle lived away from the Mt. Carmel Center for years,
* At the time of the 1993 raid, Doyle was virtually a stranger at the
Mt. Carmel Center,
* Doyle did not know many of the Davidians who died between February
28 and April 19,
* Doyle may not have even been a resident of the Mt. Carmel Center
during the siege,
* While pretending to be Koresh's disciple, Doyle defies, suppresses,
and distorts Koresh's key teachings and prophecies,
* Doyle's new church is Satanic. Among other things, it incorporates
Satanic symbols in its architecture (inverted crosses) and is closed
to the public on the Sabbath.

"By his own admission, Clive knows nothing of David's fundamental
ideas. He does not follow David's theology. For example, in 1991
David realized that it was here in America he and his followers would
be killed by the King of the North -- the US government. When I
asked Clive why David reached this conclusion, Clive had no idea.
David also said that 1290 days after his death, the Abomination That
Maketh Desolate would be set up. When I asked Clive what the
Abomination was, he was clueless about that too.

"Clive says he is not the leader of the Branch Davidians. True.
Clive is the substitute leader -- the government murdered the real
leader and gave us Clive in his place. Clive is the cuckoo's egg, an
impostor. He is a key player in the cover-up of the Waco Holocaust."

====

Andrew X98 Introduces Himself

CV:
Tell us a little about yourself ...

X98:
Right now I live in Waco and run the KoreshX-98 e-mail discussion
list. The focus is discussion of the teachings of David Koresh and
how these teachings led to his death and the deaths of his followers.
We're interested in exposing the continuing government control of the
Mt. Carmel Center. (Your readers can subscribe at by sending an
e-mail to [ KORESHX98-subscribe@onelist.com ]). And of course from
time to time I appear outside the gates of the Mt. Carmel Center,
handing out flyers, and telling visitors to beware of the Cover-up
Church.

[You can read about the Cover-up Church at:
http://public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/doc/x98_rev.html ]

I live on a small monthly Social Security allowance. Until I was
disabled in June 1996 in a motorcycle accident, I was a professional
carpet installer. For 15 years I worked as a union member, but in
1985 I started my own business of repair and inspection of existing
installations. My ancestors were coal miners in Pennsylvania but I
grew up in the city, in Philadelphia. I have a high school diploma
and spent a few years studying comparative religion at Temple
University. For years I was an intravenous drug user and have spent
time in prison on drug-related offenses. I contracted AIDS eleven
years ago as a result of my drug use, so I have had bouts of illness.

I came to believe that there must be a God in this world that could
forgive me and help me to understand why my life had been filled with
such pain and suffering. My life is not a pretty story, but I made a
decision to transmute the darkness of my life into light. Now I am
"The Watchman" of Mt.Carmel and the protector of the memory of the
Martyrs. In this holy war, this Jihad, I have three weapons: my
mouth, my hand and my heart.

To be the watchman of something is an important job, but it carries
grater significance when it is the ruins of a church where nearly a
hundred people were tortured, mutilated and burnt to death. My
connection to those people is stronger than it is for most outsiders
because I lived at Mt.Carmel when there was no one there, only me and
the Martyrs. I spent many hours protecting their honor, I am still
protecting them and will forever do so.

Your readers should know that when I first went down to Waco I
regarded Clive as my spiritual mentor and I bared my soul to him.
Perhaps he will go public with his knowledge after this interview is
published in an attempt to discredit me, but I don't care. I think
the truth about what Clive Doyle is doing in the present is much more
important than the truth about what I have done in the past.

There is something else that is important for you to know about me: I
am a Shiite Muslim. I believe in the unseen world. I do not think
life is solely made up of the physical and the sensory. I believe in
the spiritual universe. Those who would control the world also
believe in the power of the unseen. They believe in the power of
Satan and use symbols and signs to call up this Satanic power. Many
people are blind to this. I am not. I look at symbols and study
symbolism.

CV:
What brought you to Waco to study with Clive Doyle?

X98:
In 1993 I saw the Waco coverage on TV. I figured that if the US
government was going to such trouble to destroy David Koresh, he must
really have had something to say. I wanted to find out what that
"something" was, so a few years later when I was able to leave
Philadelphia, I went to Waco to study with Clive Doyle. I thought he
was David's disciple and would be able to tell me about David's work.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

I arrived at the Mt. Carmel Center on December 2, 1996. One of the
first questions I asked was whether David Koresh believed he was God.
Clive told me David never made this claim, and that neither he nor
any of the Davidians believed David was God. Rather they believed
David was chosen by God not only to be a prophet but to fulfill
prophecy. This was important to me. Had they believed David Koresh
was God Himself I would have been off in a hurry. God is all knowing
and present everywhere, but David, as a human, was not.

In those early days, I'd go to Clive's house on Old Mexia Road every
Wednesday night to study the Bible with him. Occasionally other
people would come by and join us but mostly it was just Clive and me.
A few months later another student, Peter Wagstaff, came all the way
from England to join us.

On Saturdays I attended Sabbath meetings with other Davidians.
Usually the meetings were held in the private homes of the Davidians.
Often it was Sheila Martin's home, sometimes Ophelia Santoyo's,
sometimes Catherine Matteson's.

By the way, let's get our terms defined. Clive says he is not the
leader of the Branch Davidians. Well, he sure is not the leader of
those who followed David Koresh. But Clive walks and talks and
quacks like he's the leader. The media calls upon Clive as the
spokesman, and he answers. Clive controls the purse and the minds of
his followers and he makes the decisions. "I've got control, just
don't call me the leader." OK. I'll oblige Clive. I won't call him
the leader, I'll call him the substitute leader. The government
murdered the real leader of the Branch Davidians and gave us Clive in
his place. Clive is the cuckoo's egg in the Branch Davidian nest.

X98 Researched History of Mt. Carmel Ownership

I love books and researching at libraries. Soon after my arrival,
Clive put me to work researching the contested ownership of the Mt.
Carmel Center property. I dug out the old court cases. Years ago
the land was the home of the Tawakoni Indians. They were the
soldiers who guarded the priestly caste, the Wacos or "Noble Ones."
There was a bountiful artesian well on the property, which became
part of a huge Spanish land grant made to Thomas De La Vega. Steve
Austin, through trickery, stole the land from De La Vega, and
eventually engineered the slaughter of Tawakoni and the Wacos. The
land has a fearful and complex history. I will give you an overview.

The history of the Davidians and this property begin with Florence
Houteff, the widow of Victor Houteff who founded the Davidian Seventh
Day Adventists. Florence bought 914 acres of this land in 1955. In
1959 there were at least 1,000 people living in her Mt. Carmel
Center. Florence put in a sewer system -- the Davidians relied for
water on the same artesian well used by the Tawakonis. You can see
the remnants of that system today.

In 1962, Florence Houteff sold off much of the property and went to
California. From the middle of the 914 acres, she carved out 77.86
acres, and left the reduced Mt. Carmel Center with 12 sides! Just as
new Jerusalem that comes down from Heaven has12 gates (Revelation
21:12), so the Mt. Carmel Center after Florence had 12 sides.

I challenge anybody to show me a property with 12 sides. I have
researched property all over the US and haven't found anything like
this. Remember, this 12 sided property was carved out of the middle
of 914 acres. I think Florence did it that way purposefully for some
mystical reason, possibly Masonic. Did you know that the Mt. Carmel
Center is on the "Double Eagle" Ranch Road? The Double Eagle is one
of the primary symbols of the 33rd degree Masons.

After Florence, Ben Roden, and then Lois Roden, came to power. When
Ben died, the Rodens' son, George, became his mother's rival.
Eventually Lois declared David Koresh, not George, to be a prophet of
God. This resulted in a split in the group. George Roden took
control of the land at the Mt. Carmel Center and in 1984, with the
help of the sheriff's department, forced David Koresh and his
followers out. David and his people went to live in Palestine,
Texas. George Roden eventually was sent to jail for a few months for
contempt of court. With George temporarily out of the picture, David
Koresh paid off the back taxes owing on the Mt. Carmel Center and
moved his people back in. I understand a court order stipulated that
if David Koresh maintained control of the property for five years, he
would own that land, but I was never able to find the court order.
As I said, the history is more complex than that, but this will give
you a necessary overview.

Bottom line: What I found was that no one, officially, owns that
property. Eventually Clive and I met with McLennan County sheriff's
deputy Terry Fuller to present my findings.

Besides doing this research, I performed many confidential
secretarial tasks for Clive Doyle.

X98 Becomes The Watchman

When I first arrived in Waco, Amo Bishop Roden, the common law
ex-wife of George Roden, was living on the Mt. Carmel property. Even
so, I acted as security officer and groundskeeper for Clive and his
supporters. In late January, 1998, the sheriff moved Amo off the
property. About two weeks later, on February 15, the Davidians held
a formal vote and unanimously decided to appoint me the resident
watchman of the Mt. Carmel Center; I moved onto the property that day.

The vote and the appointment were documented, and I sent copies to
the McLennan County sheriff's department and the Davidian prisoners.
I tried to do things right.

When I first moved onto the Mt. Carmel Center property, I lived in my
van. Later I lived in a trailer provided by David Koresh's mother,
Bonnie Haldeman. I was at the Mt. Carmel Center day and night. I
greeted visitors, friendly and unfriendly, whatever time they came.
I insisted all behave respectfully. If a visitor could not be
respectful towards the martyrs who died on the hallowed ground
beneath their feet, I asked them to leave.

Eventually Clive purchased a trailer and moved onto the Mt. Carmel
Center property himself, and I moved into a rental farm house on Old
Mexia Road Clive had been living in.

When I was not living on the property, I was there anyway, much of
the time, guarding it. I was present one Halloween night when some
students from Baylor University in Waco came up to the Mt. Carmel
Center, all dressed up in Halloween costumes. They were looking for
some fun, some 15 of them -- four carloads. I told them they were
behaving strangely for Christians -- all dressed up for a pagan
festival, treading on ground that ran red with the blood of those who
had been martyred for their beliefs, ground that ran red with the
blood of innocent women and children. They apologized and left.

So on an off, I lived on the Mt. Carmel Center for years. Naturally
I saw Clive every day during those times. We had many intense
discussions of the Bible.

In September 1999, I denounced Clive for founding the new chapel on
the Sabbath. Naturally I was persona non grata after that. I
continued to live in Waco until July 2000, when illness forced me to
leave to seek medical attention. I went back to Philadelphia
briefly, but for next nine months I was under medical care in
northern Virginia. I returned to Waco on April 1, 2001.

Why the name "Andrew X98"?

CV:
When did you give yourself a new name?

X98:
When a person experiences a religious conversion it is called being
"born again." The new convert often changes his name to signify that
rebirth. The Bible is full of such instances. When I left
Philadelphia to seek my God I was born again, so I changed my name.

CV:
OK. Please explain the significance of "X98"? And what is the
significance of the emblem you sometimes wear, the white X on the
black background?

X98:
At the height of the fire on April 19 two particular tanks appeared
on the Mt. Carmel Center grounds. Both were flying flags with a
white background. One flag had a red X on the foreground; the other
had a black X on the foreground.

"X" of course is an old symbol for Christ, the first letter of the
Greek word "Christos." The red X has been used to symbolize the
blood of Christ. It can be seen in the flag of Ireland.

Now, the flag with the red X that appeared on the tank: I've been
told that this flag is the Alabama state flag, and the tank flying
the flag was from the Alabama National Guard. This explanation does
not quite make sense. The tank flying the flag was on federal duty,
not Alabama duty. And the flag flew in Texas, where Alabama had no
jurisdiction. Besides, Texas has all the hardware it would ever need
without borrowing from Alabama.

As for the flag with the black X: I have been offered no explanation
for that flag. It seems to have no history. The experts I've talked
to don't know what to make of it.

But I think we can make sense of it, interpreting the symbols as we
already know them. X is a symbol of Christ. Black is a symbol for
evil. White is a symbol for good.

This black X on a white background is a flag of the anti-Christ. It
symbolizes the triumph of darkness over light, of evil over good.

So I chose to oppose that symbol. I did this by adopting the white X
on a black background as my own moniker. That symbolizes the triumph
of good over evil.

By the way, at the first showing of "Waco: The Rules of Engagement"
on April 18, I asked Michael McNulty about the flag with the black X.
He said: "The black X meant the 10th tank battalion or something, but
I really don't know. " I thought that was strange. Here we had a guy
that was supposed to be making a documentary using visual material
and he treats the most outstanding visual effect at the height of the
fire so casually. He "sorta knows, but not really." I was convinced
that McNulty was a fraud from that point on.

When I questioned Clive about McNulty's ignorance, Clive said he did
not trust McNulty either, but then offered the conventional
justification for accepting McNulty's lies: McNulty's videos were not
perfect, but they were the best we have.

That's not true of course. Linda Thompson's videos were the best we
have. They were full of truths. McNulty's videos are the
replacements for them, and his are full of lies.

CV:
Well, that takes care of the "X." What about the "98"?

X98:
All during the siege no one seemed to agree on the number of people
present in the Mt. Carmel Center, even though we all know that the
place was filled with fiber optics and listening devices. Shortly
after the April 19 fire burned itself out, a Philadelphia TV station
I was listening to reported that 86 Davidians had died. During the
next several days TV and newspapers all over the country were
reporting that same number -- "86" -- dead. In fact, papers all over
the world, even communist papers, reported "86."

I noticed that number, because the "86" is slang term that means
"kill," or "murder." If you have been 86'd, you have been killed or
murdered. By the way, that is why the abortion drug is called RU486.
The name of the drug asks a question of the public: "Are you for
murdering children?"

Later, of course, I found out the number of Davidians who died was
not 86. "Eighty-six dead at Waco" had obviously been a signal that
the Davidians had been murdered or 86ed. I of course wished to
oppose the murders. So I reversed the 86 symbol. The reverse of 86
is 98. Thus "98" is part of my name.

CV:
OK, now the "Andrew"?

X98:
We are all familiar with the flag of Scotland, the Cross of St.
Andrew. Andrew was the first Apostle. He was crucified on a cross
that was shaped like an X. Andrew was tied to that cross for four
days, and he hung there, preaching, and was martyred there, with
Christ's name on his lips. St. Andrew is my exemplar. "Andrew" was
the perfect choice.

CV:
Thank you for those explanations. Now let's move into the substance
of this interview. Why do you say Clive is not a follower of David
Koresh?

X98:
There are many reasons. But before I talk about them, I want to
provide context and clear up some misconceptions about Clive Doyle's
role at the Mt. Carmel Center under David Koresh.

Koresh Distrusted Doyle And Sent Him Away

A number of old-time Davidians have assured me that David Koresh did
not trust Clive Doyle and sent him away from the Mt. Carmel Center.
During the time David was in charge in Waco, Clive spent years at
Odessa, Texas, and in California, where he worked in the roofing
business.

Clive not living at the Mt. Carmel Center is a big deal. Devout
Branch Davidians desire to be "present," listening to the prophet as
he unfolds his prophecies. This truth, heard from the prophet's
mouth, is called the "present truth." Ellen G. White, Victor
Houteff, Ben Roden, and David Koresh all believed that it was vitally
important to witness the "present truth." David went all over the
world telling people they had to be there in Waco to hear his
revelations as they were happening. The fact that Doyle lived away
from the property for years and is now being served up as a Koresh
disciple does not ring true.

Koresh Repeatedly Slighted Doyle

Clive told me stories that also lead me to believe David Koresh did
not respect him. One time when David and his people were living in
Palestine, David took Clive into a wooded area and asked him to chop
a path for him. David left. Clive expected he would be picked up in
a few hours. Instead, David left him there all night. On another
occasion, when the group had moved back to the Mt. Carmel Center,
David took Clive to Waco, a good 10 miles away ... and left him there
to walk back. Clive told me a number of other stories about David
slighting him. Sounds to me like David was trying to send him a
message.

==

Copyright, April 19, 2001 -- May be reproduced for non-commercial purposes
--
Carol A. Valentine
President, Public Action, Inc.

Have you seen the Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum?
See what they did to the mothers and children--
http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum